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Post by YankeeFan on Sept 25, 2023 15:20:56 GMT
Meant to post this to this thread...
This whole story is hysterical.
Now look, if you want to introduce some nuance into the discussion of what people's motivations might be in wartime, I'm open to that.
Not ever soldier who fought for the Confederacy was fighting to preserve slavery. Not every soldier fighting for the Axis powers believed in the Nazi ideology.
But this has not been the standard up until now.
To turn a guy who fought as a member of a Waffen SS unit into a Ukrainian freedom fighter, and think no one would notice in absurd. For the media, who doesn't want to upset the Ukrainian narrative to go along with it before getting called out, and then deciding that he was Nazi-linked is why trust in media is nearly non-existent.
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Post by btexpress on Sept 25, 2023 16:05:26 GMT
Gotta say, Zelenskyy's attire seems to be from the Fetterman Collection. Or from Fatigues 'R Us.
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Post by YankeeFan on Sept 26, 2023 16:53:23 GMT
Liberals are always looking for Nazis to punch in the face. Not finding them, they want to punch people in the face who hold opinions they don't like.
So, we finally find an actual Nazi, but because of the war in Ukaraine, liberals gave the Nazi a standing ovation.
And, nobody seems to much care.
I mean, I know we can't always predict how such a thing would be covered in the media if, let's say, Donald Trump, or some other Republican candidate had honored a guy who fought in a nazi unit that committed war crimes, but I'm guessing it would have gotten more coverage than the blip it got when Trudeau honored one.
(Probably would have garnered a little more discussion at the OWH too.)
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Post by YankeeFan on Sept 27, 2023 15:16:41 GMT
She seems nice.
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Post by lcjjdnh on Sept 28, 2023 1:29:59 GMT
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Post by YankeeFan on Oct 4, 2023 18:35:59 GMT
This is asking for a lot more nuance than I remember previously being employed in these situations.
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Post by btexpress on Oct 5, 2023 13:26:34 GMT
OK, it didn't make you a Nazi.
It made you a traitor who deserved execution.
Glad we got that settled.
But then, we typically LOVE traitors resisting other countries' governments. We don't like them so much in our nation.
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Post by stoney on Oct 5, 2023 14:37:49 GMT
This is asking for a lot more nuance than I remember previously being employed in these situations. Well, that's a fair point. War is complicated and fighting on the Nazi side doesn't necessarily mean you're a jew-hating genocidal monster. BUT it sure as hell ain't something you should receive a standing ovation for. That's what was crazy about this. It ain't a situation where he was honored for something else and it later discovered that he was once a Nazi. Instead, the speaker specifically cited his time fighting for Nazi Waffen SS unit as a thing the Canadian Parliament should honor and applaud him for ..and like dumb little lemmings, they sure did.
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Post by YankeeFan on Oct 5, 2023 14:58:08 GMT
This is asking for a lot more nuance than I remember previously being employed in these situations. Well, that's a fair point. War is complicated and fighting on the Nazi side doesn't necessarily mean you're a jew-hating genocidal monster. BUT it sure as hell ain't something you should receive a standing ovation for.That's what was crazy about this. It ain't a situation where he was honored for something else and it later discovered that he was once a Nazi. Instead, the speaker specifically cited his time fighting for Nazi Waffen SS unit as a thing the Canadian Parliament should honor and applaud him for ..and like dumb little lemmings, they sure did. I've said as much as well. People might have different motivations. But this is way more nuance than I've ever seen in a situation like this. We've seen the media declare Cadets to be Nazi's because they played the Circle Game/made the "O.K." sign with their hand. Talia Lavin accused a disabled vet of being a Nazi because of a tattoo that was from his platoon. nypost.com/2018/06/26/new-yorker-staffer-resigns-after-falsely-accusing-ice-agent-of-having-nazi-tattoo/Samantha Bee accused people attending CPAC -- including a cancer survivor -- of being Nazis because they had short hair. www.nytimes.com/2017/03/09/arts/television/samantha-bee-show-apologizes-to-writer-for-nazi-hair-mockery.htmlSo, sure, there were obviously people who fought for the Axis Powers -- or the Confederacy in the Civil War -- who did not but into Nazi ideology. But, this guy did volunteer for a unit that was accused of some pretty bad stuff, and he was honored only for "fighting for Ukrainian freedom, against the Soviet Union," and not for some specific act of heroism, or patriotism. So, he's a very odd choice of people to make this point.
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Post by btexpress on Oct 7, 2023 13:13:56 GMT
Don't really see how he could have been fighting for Ukrainian freedom. It wasn't like they were going to declare independence or anything.
Sure they hated Stalin, and I get that. But you're either going to be a member of Stalin's country or Hitler's. Ain't no Option 3 at that time.
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Post by YankeeFan on Oct 16, 2023 15:54:01 GMT
Biden has never been a guy who likes making a decision. He likes debate.
The former official said that, by December of 2022, Sullivan was trying to get the President to use the threat of sending atacms as leverage with the Russians. “He was pushing Biden: Why don’t we at least say we will send atacms unless you stop firing on cities?” the former official told me. “So he’s been making that argument for at least six months now, and the President was not willing to do it. At some point, the President is the President.”
Another former senior U.S. official recalled a conversation with Sullivan about whether the U.S. would agree to send F-16s to Ukraine. Sullivan indicated that he was supportive. But, in early 2023, Biden publicly ruled out doing so, at least in the short term. Months later, several European allies agreed, with Biden’s approval, to supply F-16s to Ukraine. It wasn’t until the summer, however, that the U.S. signed off on a plan to train Ukrainian pilots on the fighter jets. The former official told me he had concluded, “The biggest drag on the speed of responding to Ukrainian requests has been the President, not Lloyd Austin, not Tony, not Jake—not the Administration, but the President. Jake is trying to play the role of honest broker, because he’s with the President every day.”
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Post by doctorquant on Oct 16, 2023 16:19:02 GMT
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Post by YankeeFan on Nov 7, 2023 16:06:58 GMT
Maybe this is the best thing to do. Maybe it's inevitable.
But it seems to me that anyone who suggested this previously was vilified.
It also seems to me that we shouldn't be making policy change through press leaks.
U.S. and European officials have begun quietly talking to the Ukrainian government about what possible peace negotiations with Russia might entail to end the war, according to one current senior U.S. official and one former senior U.S. official familiar with the discussions.
The conversations have included very broad outlines of what Ukraine might need to give up to reach a deal, the officials said. Some of the talks, which officials described as delicate, took place last month during a meeting of representatives from more than 50 nations supporting Ukraine, including NATO members, known as the Ukraine Defense Contact Group, the officials said.
The discussions are an acknowledgment of the dynamics militarily on the ground in Ukraine and politically in the U.S. and Europe, officials said.
They began amid concerns among U.S. and European officials that the war has reached a stalemate and about the ability to continue providing aid to Ukraine, officials said. Biden administration officials also are worried that Ukraine is running out of forces, while Russia has a seemingly endless supply, officials said. Ukraine is also struggling with recruiting and has recently seen public protests about some of President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s open-ended conscription requirements.
And there is unease in the U.S. government with how much less public attention the war in Ukraine has garnered since the Israel-Hamas war began nearly a month ago, the officials said. Officials fear that shift could make securing additional aid for Kyiv more difficult.
Some U.S. military officials have privately begun using the term “stalemate” to describe the current battle in Ukraine, with some saying it may come down to which side can maintain a military force the longest. Neither side is making large strides on the battlefield, which some U.S. officials now describe as a war of inches. Officials also have privately said Ukraine likely only has until the end of the year or shortly thereafter before more urgent discussions about peace negotiations should begin. U.S. officials have shared their views on such a timeline with European allies, officials said.
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Post by btexpress on Nov 7, 2023 17:10:06 GMT
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Post by YankeeFan on Nov 20, 2023 23:17:43 GMT
Biden putting Ukraine on the clock publicly.
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