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Post by YankeeFan on Aug 26, 2024 15:24:35 GMT
But I certainly wouldn't look to play with women or children, to create a situation where I was all of a sudden one of the best players. I think the bolded is an unfair mischaracterization of what transgender athletes are doing in general. There may be very few specific cases, but overall I think they just want to play with the gender to which they identify. But just not playing doesn't really seem like a fair expectation, especially if it's a sport that they really enjoy. It would be forcing them to make a trade in order to be their true selves. No other marginalized group has to make that trade. "You can be gay, but you can't play baseball." Your last point, the rights of trans women vs the rights of "other women," is an interesting one but I think unfair. The right that trans women want is to be able to play a sport. No one is telling "other women" they don't have the right to play. So what is the right of the "other women" that is at stake here? The right to win? Does anyone have that right? Maybe the right to play on what they consider a level playing field? The right to play at all vs. the right to play on a level playing field. I lean toward the former, mostly because there is no such thing as a level playing field. I think that, like a lot of things, a few people can fuck things up for everyone. If a trans woman joined the local rec league women's soccer team, and was a middling player, no one would give a shit. But there do appear to be some trans women who get off on this. There are some trans women (or men pretending to be trans) who get off on invading women's spaces. There are some trans women for who it's more of a sexual perversion than it is a gender identity issue. And while this may be a small subset of the overall population, they're the ones causing the issues. (Like the trans women in the locker rooms of women's spas.) The problem is that I don't know how you write rules for society that are inclusive, but also protect people from those who use these rules for perversion, or athletic dominance, or other nefarious purposes.
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Post by TyWebb on Aug 26, 2024 15:24:55 GMT
No other marginalized group has to make that trade. "You can be gay, but you can't play baseball." What about the theater and/or film? "Hamilton" notwithstanding, no one would reasonably argue that Michael B. Jordan should play Bob Dylan. That's not really an apples-apples comparison though, is it? No one is saying that a trans woman should be starting striker, just that she should be allowed to play. No one would say Michael B. Jordan shouldn't be in movies because he's black. But there are roles in the wide world of acting that he isn't right for.
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Post by TyWebb on Aug 26, 2024 15:27:55 GMT
I think the bolded is an unfair mischaracterization of what transgender athletes are doing in general. There may be very few specific cases, but overall I think they just want to play with the gender to which they identify. But just not playing doesn't really seem like a fair expectation, especially if it's a sport that they really enjoy. It would be forcing them to make a trade in order to be their true selves. No other marginalized group has to make that trade. "You can be gay, but you can't play baseball." Your last point, the rights of trans women vs the rights of "other women," is an interesting one but I think unfair. The right that trans women want is to be able to play a sport. No one is telling "other women" they don't have the right to play. So what is the right of the "other women" that is at stake here? The right to win? Does anyone have that right? Maybe the right to play on what they consider a level playing field? The right to play at all vs. the right to play on a level playing field. I lean toward the former, mostly because there is no such thing as a level playing field. I think that, like a lot of things, a few people can fuck things up for everyone. If a trans woman joined the local rec league women's soccer team, and was a middling player, no one would give a shit. But there do appear to be some trans women who get off on this. There are some trans women (or men pretending to be trans) who get off on invading women's spaces. There are some trans women for who it's more of a sexual perversion than it is a gender identity issue. And while this may be a small subset of the overall population, they're the ones causing the issues. (Like the trans women in the locker rooms of women's spas.) The problem is that I don't know how you write rules for society that are inclusive, but also protect people from those who use these rules for perversion, or athletic dominance, or other nefarious purposes. Ohhhhh I feel a gun control argument coming from all of this, but I refuse to engage in any "trans people are guns" whatabout comparisons. I'll just say that there aren't any other marginalized groups that are forced to pay broadly for the sins of their worst representatives.
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Post by Ridiculously Dull Bobby on Aug 26, 2024 15:34:21 GMT
What about the theater and/or film? "Hamilton" notwithstanding, no one would reasonably argue that Michael B. Jordan should play Bob Dylan. This guy was one of six people (including Cate Blanchett) to play Dylan in “I’m Not There”:
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Post by Whitman on Aug 26, 2024 15:37:53 GMT
What about the theater and/or film? "Hamilton" notwithstanding, no one would reasonably argue that Michael B. Jordan should play Bob Dylan. This guy was one of six people (including Cate Blanchett) to play Dylan in “I’m Not There”: I remember. It was an artsy fartsy movie, though. And I mentioned "Hamilton," as well, in which the gimmick casting was part of the art. But I think you'd agree that it's reasonable that Timothy Chalet is cast as Dylan instead of a Black or Asian actor, no? And that no Black or Asian actors were considered?
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Post by Ridiculously Dull Bobby on Aug 26, 2024 15:41:02 GMT
I think filmmakers should cast whoever the fuck they want in their movies.
I also think sports leagues should be free to include or exclude trans athletes as they see fit.
I don’t believe anyone needs my help making those decisions.
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Post by Whitman on Aug 26, 2024 15:48:56 GMT
I think filmmakers should cast whoever the fuck they want in their movies. I also think sports leagues should be free to include or exclude trans athletes as they see fit. I don’t believe anyone needs my help making those decisions. I think you're correct here. My issue would be the government legislating it. But, indeed, if someone doesn't like that the "Premier League" is permitting trans-gender women to play, I suppose they are free to start their own league that excludes trans-gender women, then let the market decide which league survives.
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Post by Ridiculously Dull Bobby on Aug 26, 2024 15:59:03 GMT
I think filmmakers should cast whoever the fuck they want in their movies. I also think sports leagues should be free to include or exclude trans athletes as they see fit. I don’t believe anyone needs my help making those decisions. I think you're correct here. My issue would be the government legislating it. But, indeed, if someone doesn't like that the "Premier League" is permitting trans-gender women to play, I suppose they are free to start their own league that excludes trans-gender women, then let the market decide which league survives. I go back to the hysterics over a girl being “forced” to compete against a “boy” in a martial arts tournament last year. ZOMG, she was OUTWEIGHED by like 100 pounds!!! Never mind that the girl dusted the transgender competitor in short order, and they were competing in the Absolute division, which is for elite fighters and is the only one that has no restrictions whatsoever. That should be perfectly acceptable.
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Post by YankeeFan on Aug 26, 2024 16:37:15 GMT
I think filmmakers should cast whoever the fuck they want in their movies. I also think sports leagues should be free to include or exclude trans athletes as they see fit. I don’t believe anyone needs my help making those decisions. I think you're correct here. My issue would be the government legislating it. But, indeed, if someone doesn't like that the "Premier League" is permitting trans-gender women to play, I suppose they are free to start their own league that excludes trans-gender women, then let the market decide which league survives. From what the Daily Mail article says, that is not the case in Australia.
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Post by YankeeFan on Aug 26, 2024 17:13:08 GMT
Australia is "ahead of the curve" on this. A transgender woman from Australia has won a discrimination case against a women-only social media app, after she was denied access on the basis of being male. The Federal Court found that although Roxanne Tickle had not been directly discriminated against, she was a victim of indirect discrimination - which refers to when a decision disadvantages a person with a particular attribute - and ordered the app to pay her A$10,000 ($6,700; £5,100) plus costs. It’s a landmark ruling when it comes to gender identity, and at the very heart of the case was the ever more contentious question: what is a woman? In 2021, Tickle downloaded “Giggle for Girls”, an app marketed as an online refuge where women could share their experiences in a safe space, and where men were not allowed. In order to gain access, she had to upload a selfie to prove she was a woman, which was assessed by gender recognition software designed to screen out men. However, seven months later - after successfully joining the platform - her membership was revoked. As someone who identifies as a woman, Tickle claimed she was legally entitled to use services meant for women, and that she was discriminated against based on her gender identity.www.bbc.com/news/articles/c07ev1v7r4po
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Post by ecwyanks on Aug 26, 2024 20:17:11 GMT
I think filmmakers should cast whoever the fuck they want in their movies. I also think sports leagues should be free to include or exclude trans athletes as they see fit. I don’t believe anyone needs my help making those decisions. I think you're correct here. My issue would be the government legislating it. But, indeed, if someone doesn't like that the "Premier League" is permitting trans-gender women to play, I suppose they are free to start their own league that excludes trans-gender women, then let the market decide which league survives. Renee Richards played tennis about a half century ago. That seems like a pretty good policy. When you complete the transition biologically you can play.
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Post by YankeeFan on Aug 30, 2024 15:43:01 GMT
Trans women are still a pretty small percentage of women overall. But anytime there's a list like this, there's almost always a trans woman on it.
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Post by TyWebb on Aug 30, 2024 15:45:49 GMT
Trans women are still a pretty small percentage of women overall. But anytime there's a list like this, there's almost always a trans woman on it. So you're going to cancel your subscription to Elle Canada?
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Post by YankeeFan on Aug 30, 2024 22:03:44 GMT
LOL. Two of the Canadian women who Elle Canada says are breaking the glass ceiling were born men.
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Post by TyWebb on Aug 30, 2024 22:23:04 GMT
LOL. Two of the Canadian women who Elle Canada says are breaking the glass ceiling were born men. I’m sure Elle Canada will miss your subscription fees.
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