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Post by YankeeFan on Jan 13, 2021 22:37:35 GMT
I know it's because of celebrity, but whenever I see photos or video of dumpy Trump, it just floors me that this oaf is the guy who has managed to cultivate a manic cult following in American politics. I could understand if an Obama or a Hawley were able to do so - young, charismatic, good-looking guys. But this fucking guy? The thing is... I think almost anyone could have done it. He followed Perot's playbook and Buchanan's playbook. It was there for anyone to see. His fame, the crowded primary field and, and his being the only candidate to call bullshit on unchecked illegal immigration helped to propel him to the nomination, which neither Perot or Buchanan had. He had the zealous backing that fringe candidates like Ron Paul have always enjoyed, along with the backing of one of the two major parties. And, the media wasn't able to destroy him, because he wasn't running as some holier than thou republican, who could be accused of hypocrisy. After seeing mainstream republicans like McCain and Romney get demonized by the left/media, and basically fold under the weight of it, a lot of people really did see value in an asshole who told them to go fuck themselves. Newt tried this in the 2012 campaign, but didn't get far, and Chris Christie was aiming for the something similar in 2016. |
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Post by sharky, Hunter’s text buddy on Jan 13, 2021 22:39:59 GMT
Can anyone even imagine what a fucking circus the 2024 election would be with him in it? And the fucker would probably win the nomination. I've asked this a number of times and haven't received a good answer. Who defeats him in a primary? |
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Post by Dr Boom 70 on Jan 13, 2021 22:40:14 GMT
Is Anthony Gonzalez the same Anthony Gonzalez that played in the NFL? Pretty sure he is. Yes. From Ohio st |
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Post by Whitman on Jan 13, 2021 22:40:15 GMT
I know it's because of celebrity, but whenever I see photos or video of dumpy Trump, it just floors me that this oaf is the guy who has managed to cultivate a manic cult following in American politics. I could understand if an Obama or a Hawley were able to do so - young, charismatic, good-looking guys. But this fucking guy? The thing is... I think almost anyone could have done it. He followed Perot's playbook and Buchanan's playbook. It was there for anyone to see. His fame, the crowded primary field and, and his being the only candidate to call bullshit on unchecked illegal immigration helped to propel him to the nomination, which neither Perot or Buchanan had. He had the zealous backing that fringe candidates like Ron Paul have always enjoyed, along with the backing of one of the two major parties. And, the media wasn't able to destroy him, because he wasn't running as some holier than thou republican, who could be accused of hypocrisy. After seeing mainstream republicans like McCain and Romney get demonized by the left/media, and basically fold under the weight of it, a lot of people really did see value in an asshole who told them to go fuck themselves. Newt tried this in the 2012 campaign, but didn't get far, and Chris Christie was aiming for the something similar in 2016. You said "anyone could have done it," then named like eight people who tried and failed. |
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Post by YankeeFan on Jan 13, 2021 22:41:36 GMT
I would have guessed it would be more. Trump didn't deserve any loyalty at this point, as he was loyal to no one but himself. And, I think his reputation will only get worse, making a vote for impeachment less difficult for republicans to defend. It's all a little silly, coming with no time for a Senate trial, prior to the end of his term. But, it's probably worth it for history's sake, and for ruling him ineligible for future office, which will only be doing republicans a favor. You have moved on, but I think this is pretty good evidence much of the Republican Party has not. I think Trump still has (and is going to maintain) more of a foothold than you would like. Taking away his microphone will hasten his departure from the stage. I can't imagine anyone wanting him to campaign for them going forward, and I'm not sure what cause he could rally people around at this point. He's too old to try to launch an actual political movement, and anyone who wants a future in national politics would be crazy to align with him going forward. I mean, fuck, Bill Belichick has disassociated from him. He doesn't give a fuck what anyone thinks. |
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Post by Whitman on Jan 13, 2021 22:44:44 GMT
You have moved on, but I think this is pretty good evidence much of the Republican Party has not. I think Trump still has (and is going to maintain) more of a foothold than you would like. I can't imagine anyone wanting him to campaign for them going forward, and I'm not sure what cause he could rally people around at this point. The "cause" is Donald Trump. |
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Post by Dr Boom 70 on Jan 13, 2021 22:45:27 GMT
I know it's because of celebrity, but whenever I see photos or video of dumpy Trump, it just floors me that this oaf is the guy who has managed to cultivate a manic cult following in American politics. I could understand if an Obama or a Hawley were able to do so - young, charismatic, good-looking guys. But this fucking guy? The thing is... I think almost anyone could have done it. He followed Perot's playbook and Buchanan's playbook. It was there for anyone to see. His fame, the crowded primary field and, and his being the only candidate to call bullshit on unchecked illegal immigration helped to propel him to the nomination, which neither Perot or Buchanan had. He had the zealous backing that fringe candidates like Ron Paul have always enjoyed, along with the backing of one of the two major parties. And, the media wasn't able to destroy him, because he wasn't running as some holier than thou republican, who could be accused of hypocrisy. After seeing mainstream republicans like McCain and Romney get demonized by the left/media, and basically fold under the weight of it, a lot of people really did see value in an asshole who told them to go fuck themselves. Newt tried this in the 2012 campaign, but didn't get far, and Chris Christie was aiming for the something similar in 2016. Don't discount the credibility that Morning Joe and Mika gave him with the main stream. In early stages of campaign he was on their show almost every other day. |
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Post by YankeeFan on Jan 13, 2021 22:52:45 GMT
The thing is... I think almost anyone could have done it. He followed Perot's playbook and Buchanan's playbook. It was there for anyone to see. His fame, the crowded primary field and, and his being the only candidate to call bullshit on unchecked illegal immigration helped to propel him to the nomination, which neither Perot or Buchanan had. He had the zealous backing that fringe candidates like Ron Paul have always enjoyed, along with the backing of one of the two major parties. And, the media wasn't able to destroy him, because he wasn't running as some holier than thou republican, who could be accused of hypocrisy. After seeing mainstream republicans like McCain and Romney get demonized by the left/media, and basically fold under the weight of it, a lot of people really did see value in an asshole who told them to go fuck themselves. Newt tried this in the 2012 campaign, but didn't get far, and Chris Christie was aiming for the something similar in 2016. You said "anyone could have done it," then named like eight people who tried and failed. Perot never ran as a republican. Buchanan was not a politician. Ron Paul was fringe. Newt was past his prime and at least somewhat discredited. An actual Presidential contender who followed the playbook could have gone far. If McCain and/or Romney had gone down fighting, I don't think Trump happens. The other thing was the republican base had become very frustrated by their leadership that said they would do things like increase border security, cut government spending, oppose ObamaCare, and limit abortion access, while confirming conservative judges, but then did not when they actually had the opportunity. GWB, John Boehner, John McCain, Mitt Romney, and Paul Ryan would have never actually followed through on those things. Mainstream republicans wouldn't even do simple things like honor their pledge to move our embassy to Jerusalem. There was a real belief that Trump really would do what he said he would do. |
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Post by YankeeFan on Jan 13, 2021 22:54:19 GMT
I can't imagine anyone wanting him to campaign for them going forward, and I'm not sure what cause he could rally people around at this point. The "cause" is Donald Trump. Yeah, but there's no outlet for that cause if he's never going to be a candidate, and isn't building a party. All he can do is run against people or policies, but without someone willing to stand alongside him when he does that, I'm not sure it can go anywhere. |
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Post by Whitman on Jan 13, 2021 22:54:47 GMT
You said "anyone could have done it," then named like eight people who tried and failed. Perot never ran as a republican. Buchanan was not a politician. Ron Paul was fringe. Newt was past his prime and at least somewhat discredited. An actual Presidential contender who followed the playbook could have gone far. If McCain and/or Romney had gone down fighting, I don't think Trump happens. The other thing was the republican base had become very frustrated by their leadership that said they would do things like increase border security, cut government spending, oppose ObamaCare, and limit abortion access, while confirming conservative judges, but then did not when they actually had the opportunity. GWB, John Boehner, John McCain, Mitt Romney, and Paul Ryan would have never actually followed through on those things. Mainstream republicans wouldn't even do simple things like honor their pledge to move our embassy to Jerusalem. There was a real belief that Trump really would do what he said he would do. But he didn't get in office on the votes of fed up mainstream Republicans. He got the nomination and, then, the office on the votes of a bunch of mouth breathers who didn't vote before. |
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Post by YankeeFan on Jan 13, 2021 23:27:34 GMT
Perot never ran as a republican. Buchanan was not a politician. Ron Paul was fringe. Newt was past his prime and at least somewhat discredited. An actual Presidential contender who followed the playbook could have gone far. If McCain and/or Romney had gone down fighting, I don't think Trump happens. The other thing was the republican base had become very frustrated by their leadership that said they would do things like increase border security, cut government spending, oppose ObamaCare, and limit abortion access, while confirming conservative judges, but then did not when they actually had the opportunity. GWB, John Boehner, John McCain, Mitt Romney, and Paul Ryan would have never actually followed through on those things. Mainstream republicans wouldn't even do simple things like honor their pledge to move our embassy to Jerusalem. There was a real belief that Trump really would do what he said he would do. But he didn't get in office on the votes of fed up mainstream Republicans. He got the nomination and, then, the office on the votes of a bunch of mouth breathers who didn't vote before. He got a lot of mainstream Republican votes in the general election, and even in the primaries, as he moved further into the lead. Yeah, he lost some republicans too, and replaced them with working class Dems, and new voters. But, without the party nomination, he never wins. If he ran as an independent, he gets a fraction of the vote. |
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Post by Whitman on Jan 13, 2021 23:29:33 GMT
But he didn't get in office on the votes of fed up mainstream Republicans. He got the nomination and, then, the office on the votes of a bunch of mouth breathers who didn't vote before. , and even in the primaries, as he moved further into the lead. Yeah, he lost some republicans too, and replaced them with working class Dems, and new voters. But, without the party nomination, he never wins. If he ran as an independent, he gets a fraction of the vote. Well ... sure. But that has little to do with what you were arguing. |
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Post by YankeeFan on Jan 13, 2021 23:38:23 GMT
He got a lot of mainstream Republican votes in the general election, and even in the primaries, as he moved further into the lead. Yeah, he lost some republicans too, and replaced them with working class Dems, and new voters. But, without the party nomination, he never wins. If he ran as an independent, he gets a fraction of the vote. Well ... sure. But that has little to do with what you were arguing. I agree that his early primary support was based on fame, and included a lot of disaffected voters. But, his immigration position -- thought inartfully articulated -- was a legitimate position, that drew a lot of votes. It went expressly against the 2012 republican "autopsy". He was the only one who held such a position, and it made him look like someone unafraid of taking on entrenched opinion, and the media. Now, it admittedly did also appeal to xenophobes and racists. And, ultimately, that support undermined everything else. |
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Post by Rejected by the Rejects on Jan 13, 2021 23:46:01 GMT
Well ... sure. But that has little to do with what you were arguing. I agree that his early primary support was based on fame, and included a lot of disaffected voters. But, his immigration position -- thought inartfully articulated -- was a legitimate position, that drew a lot of votes. It went expressly against the 2012 republican "autopsy". He was the only one who held such a position, and it made him look like someone unafraid of taking on entrenched opinion, and the media. Now, it admittedly did also appeal to xenophobes and racists. And, ultimately, that support undermined everything else. When using the terms “xenophobes” and “racists,” please note that you need to use the term “we,” Fan. |
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Post by YankeeFan on Jan 13, 2021 23:48:54 GMT
I agree that his early primary support was based on fame, and included a lot of disaffected voters. But, his immigration position -- thought inartfully articulated -- was a legitimate position, that drew a lot of votes. It went expressly against the 2012 republican "autopsy". He was the only one who held such a position, and it made him look like someone unafraid of taking on entrenched opinion, and the media. Now, it admittedly did also appeal to xenophobes and racists. And, ultimately, that support undermined everything else. When using the terms “xenophobes” and “racists,” please note that you need to use the term “we,” Fan. Link? |
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