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Post by YankeeFan on Jul 10, 2019 22:19:44 GMT
My issue is in part where you make huge leaps in logic to fit your “media is bad” narrative. For all we know, she did not have the goods. She did not have any documents to back up what she said. I’m a defender, generally, of investigative journalism as a profession, particularly magazine journalism which is where I have some experience, but I don’t make a habit of defending bad journalism. You don’t know what it takes to clear the bar — one that not only keeps you from getting sued, but one that keeps you from getting scammed — but it’s a lot higher than “some people said this.” It sounds to me like ten Herald reporter worked a lot harder than Ward. Sounds like she chickened out, and now wants credit for “Ah ha! I knew this!” Either way, your fantasy where if you were in her shoes, you’d go to the cops is a very heroic of yourself, but again, we know that even when the cops did have the information, and enough evidence to prosecute, they tried to make it go away. I know after having 100 of these same debates that you just keep moving the goal posts every time. You’d like to blame the reporter here, over one of the most famous and highly respected editors of this era in magazines, a publication that has tremendous influence and ad dollars and clout and credibility, because why again? She wanted it in the story! Carter is the one who killed it. Is it because you need a distraction from Acosta’a non-apology today? Or the fact that the justice department already argued in court last week that they were not going to revisit the lenient sentence? Dear god man. Sure let’s string up the real villain here, the initial reporter who took a standard financial profile of a secretive socialite and tried to do real reporting and had it killed by powerful forces, either because what she has wasn’t good enough, or what she had was too good. She either had the goods, and did nothing, or she's lying about what she had now: What I had “on the girls” were some remarkably brave first-person accounts. Three on-the-record stories from a family: a mother and her daughters who came from Phoenix. The oldest daughter, an artist whose character was vouchsafed to me by several sources, including the artist Eric Fischl, had told me, weeping as she sat in my living room, of how Epstein had attempted to seduce both her and, separately, her younger sister, then only 16.www.thedailybeast.com/i-tried-to-warn-you-about-sleazy-billionaire-jeffrey-epstein-in-2003?ref=scrollAnd, you're a funny one. You've never let the absence of facts get in the way of telling us who you think should go to jail, or suffer other penalties. Even in this case, you've convicted Dershowitz, with no evidence. But, the journalist gets the benefit of the doubt from you. And, again, you want to put more of the blame on Carter? Go right ahead. I'm with you. He's likely a pig, who'd covered up for friends before. It's not like Pecker and Trump are the only two to have such a relationship. But, no scorn, at all, for Ward? Give me a break. She's convinced that she knew Epstein was a serial predator, who victimized children. She tells us this. She believed it to be true. And, she tells us of nothing she did, other than turn in a first draft of a story to Graydon Carter. At least Carter can claim that her evidence wasn't good enough, or that he believed Epstein. Ward has no such excuse. And, so she had no further obligation to get the truth out? To actually warn other potential victims? All she could do was to go back to her desk and make the edits Graydon ordered, and stay quiet for 16 years? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 22:19:46 GMT
Call it a bunch but seems like maybe Alex is lying.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 22:19:49 GMT
It's imagined. He's arguing that she had other recourses to protect young girls other than just publishing a story in Vanity Fair magazine. Do you agree? I'm not totally up to speed here on the story, but depending on what information she had, my instinct is to be pretty uncomfortable with not passing it along, I guess. I don't want to set anyone off, though, by continuing the conversation about the journalist here. I just don't know that much about this whole story to contribute much, and I always find the journalism angles interesting, more interesting than the politics. It's just my nature. |
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Post by YankeeFan on Jul 10, 2019 22:20:42 GMT
Is this real? Is there a link? Or is this how you’d imagine an interview with her would go? Link please. Is this real? C'mon. LOL. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 22:23:59 GMT
Are there other instances where journalists go to the authorities? I know when I investigated old murders for the City of Chicago, the Medill professor who had previously led an investigation got into some deep shit for basically getting involved in the case as an advocate rather than just covering a story.
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Post by sharky, Hunter’s text buddy on Jul 10, 2019 22:28:42 GMT
If I had information that would lead to an arrest that would stop sex trafficking and rape, I would have to go through other avenues if it were spiked from my story, but that's me, as a fully formed modern man. I don't know this person, or the situation she was in, and the pressures she was feeling. If she does that, she probably doesn't get any more Vanity Fair freelance pieces, right? Or if she was on staff, it could lead to other repercussions. Those pressures are real, and while it's easy to say now how we would act, I don't think it's fair to put ourselves in her shoes when we don't have to actually face those pressures.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 22:30:59 GMT
You've never let the absence of facts get in the way of telling us who you think should go to jail, or suffer other penalties. Even in this case, you've convicted Dershowitz, with no evidence. [ This is a great example of the slight of hand bullshit you pull. Do you think that I hold myself to the standard of my journalism, which is my job, on an alt-Sports journalism message board? Is that what you’d prefer? That I never make any joke or wise crack or throw out some theory that I wouldn’t personally publish? How should that work? You get to throw out lunatic shit all the time and say “Hey just asking questions, it sure seems like Chelsea looks like Webb Hubble” but I should have my post reviewed by an editor and legal? I don’t know if Dersh actually raped young girls. I do think he’s a piece of shit with a story that keeps shifting and because he defends Trump you suddenly like him which is why you’ll overlook any and all of his questionable morals to say “He’s just doing his job!” (Guess what? So was Rahm Emmanuel and I still think he’s a scumbag.) Sure I find Ward’s victory lap pretty disgraceful. As I said 100,000 words ago, she could have done what the guys who got their Singer story spiked by Condé Nast did. She should shut up. But your effort to make her out to be the big villain here is pathetic. Why didn’t Trump go to the FBI? He knew about Jeff fucking younger women. Supposedly according to alt-right Twitter he banned Jeff from Mar-a-lago for hitting in the teen daughter of a member. Why didn’t he go to the FBI? He had nothing to lose. Why was he as cowardly as Ward? I suspect he’s heard way more than she did. |
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Post by YankeeFan on Jul 10, 2019 22:31:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 22:40:07 GMT
If I had information that would lead to an arrest that would stop sex trafficking and rape, I would have to go through other avenues if it were spiked from my story, but that's me, as a fully formed modern man. I don't know this person, or the situation she was in, and the pressures she was feeling. If she does that, she probably doesn't get any more Vanity Fair freelance pieces, right? Or if she was on staff, it could lead to other repercussions. Those pressures are real, and while it's easy to say now how we would act, I don't think it's fair to put ourselves in her shoes when we don't have to actually face those pressures. Are those pressures worse than living with information that you believed could stop someone and something so horrible and knowing you did nothing with it?* I get what you’re saying about job security, but there has to be a point at which some things are more important. I would hope pedophilia would be past that point for most people. Especially journalists. *Perhaps she did something. Maybe we’ll find out more as this story moves forward. But I think the issues at play here deserve more than the typical knee-jerk defense of journalists. |
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Post by YankeeFan on Jul 10, 2019 22:41:15 GMT
The story is eerily similar to the one I had 16 years ago, bur decided not to hand over to the FBI: Given the political sentiment, it’s unsurprising that the FBI should feel newly emboldened to investigate Epstein—basing some of their work on Brown’s excellent reporting.
The story in the indictment that was unsealed earlier Monday was eerily familiar to all of us who have been paying attention to Epstein’s sick story. What is different, finally, after 16 years, is the reaction, which is, at last, appropriate.
One of the young women who spoke to me 16 years ago emailed Monday evening. “Shocked and elated,” she said. “Fingers crossed they all finally go down.” Amen to that.
www.thedailybeast.com/jeffrey-epsteins-sick-story-played-out-for-years-in-plain-sight? |
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Post by YankeeFan on Jul 10, 2019 22:43:30 GMT
If what she tells us is true, she's the Scot Peterson of journalism.
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Post by Da Man on Jul 10, 2019 22:44:55 GMT
If I had information that would lead to an arrest that would stop sex trafficking and rape, I would have to go through other avenues if it were spiked from my story, but that's me, as a fully formed modern man. I don't know this person, or the situation she was in, and the pressures she was feeling. If she does that, she probably doesn't get any more Vanity Fair freelance pieces, right? Or if she was on staff, it could lead to other repercussions. Those pressures are real, and while it's easy to say now how we would act, I don't think it's fair to put ourselves in her shoes when we don't have to actually face those pressures. If she's a freelancer could she have pitched that information to another outlet? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 22:50:00 GMT
But, when it comes to Ward, who says she knew in 2003 what he was up to, and did nothing about it, Double Down and MC and everyone else can't bring themselves to utter an unkind word. Just to clarify, I said the most likely scenario was that either A) she hadn’t nailed down the story as well as she thought she had, or that B) Epstein pressured the magazine to kill the story, which he has a history of doing. Not sure how that reflects well on her, but whatever. Also, upon further reading, it turns out she was preggers when she was reporting the story, and she had some complications that landed her baby in the NICU. Is it even a little possible she dropped it because she didn’t want to get put in the middle of a prolonged legal battle while her baby was fighting to stay alive? |
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Post by frantic on Jul 10, 2019 23:00:21 GMT
It's almost a Kantian rule that journalists aren't law enforcement and don't share unpublished information with law enforcement.
This is one of those situations where a utilitarian or pluralist could make the case that it's situationally appropriate, but you're opening up a can of worms.
If VF spikes the story, you start shopping it to someone who has the nuts to run it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 23:18:03 GMT
apple.news/AebyH9L4TQGerwj4vvHzuAA[Opinion piece, but it gives some background on the Epstein deal from 2007. And I just clicked on my Apple News feed. Top story: “Labor secretary defends role in Epstein plea deal, offers no apology to sexual abuse victims” That headline is something. I’m curious what the lawyers around here think. Should prosecutors publicly apologize for all their previous cases that did not result in the maximum penalty? Should defense lawyers publicly apologize if clients go on to commit more crimes?
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